richard: ukraine and arming them and so forth. secondly pressure from nato. and more broadly, how we try to close the gap in capabilities. what is more juicing is how you take a robust line against russia without putting them in isolation. how do you keep open the channels to talk with russia about syria or iran, and at the same time pressure and sanction them over ukraine? that is where gets close to governing. you want to put pressure, but you still have to work with them. john: as a political matter it seems you could not be too hawkish when he comes to puyttin. are there other issues that we are talking about? richard: in governing, you have to make trade-offs. just as tomorrow we could have to turn to russia to deal with a terrorism issue, let's say, syria, there are more than 1000 people from chechnya in syria. it's possible that vladimir putin wakes up and says we have a real problem on our hands and i do not want them to continue to go to syria. how do you deal with that? mark: h richardaass, thank you. -- richard hasass, thank you. we'll be right bac